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Mr_Right Mr_Right is online now
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Jacquesne wrote :
Most women are not going to spend an hour or more getting dressed up to go on a potentially horrible date just to get a free meal. It simply isn't worth it.
I know you said "Most", but I both met and know several women who were just in it for the free meals.

Really, it was kind of sad.
- June 29th, 2009, 06:13 pm
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And you should never be spending more than $40 bucks on a first date in the first place. Expecially if you're dating a lot of different women.

I think that's mentioned in Dating for Dummies, actually.
- June 29th, 2009, 06:15 pm
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Drexel09 Drexel09 is offline
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I got dumped 2 months after dropping $2,000+ on an overseas vacation. Talk about life's cruelties...
- June 29th, 2009, 06:35 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is online now
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bob82 wrote :
Hard work and a lot of schooling lol.

Anyway, I've had a few women insist on paying and I'm more than happy to accept but it seems after I reject the first time, it never comes up again.

I've been trying to say "well you can get it next time" if on the first date she offers as we all know that it is standard practice for the guy to pay the first time.

And it's standard practice for her to have no decent employment opportunity and spend her day folding your laundry and getting your dinner ready.

I saw it with my parents era, and I want none of it.

I get the first one too; if she doens't get the second that's the end of the road - that is the 21st century, and that is how you protect yourself.
- June 29th, 2009, 06:52 pm
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AustinShaguar AustinShaguar is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
I get the first one too; if she doens't get the second that's the end of the road - that is the 21st century, and that is how you protect yourself.
Oddly, many will say that IF YOU ask someone out then it is your obligation to pick up the tab. I don't disagree with that, however, if you mix that statement with yours above then it would be assumed that the lady would be the one asking you out for that second date. What happens if she doesn't? Will you ask her out on a second date and then expect her to pick up the tab. Seems kind of awkward if you ask me. Further, what if your first date is nothing more than meeting up for coffee and perhaps a small bite just as an introduction. Would the second date be more substantial like a $40 or $50 dinner. Then would you still expect her to pick up the tab?

I would propose the following. The guy picks up the tab on the first date. If the guy likes said gal then guy asks gal on second date. If said gal accepts second date then it should be assumed that said gal likes guy and would like to continue down the path of getting to know each other. Guy picks up tab for second date. After second date if said gal still likes guy then gal asks guy out on a third date and picks up tab.

If gal doesn't ask guy out on third date then she either has decided to move on OR was in it for the free meal. In either case it is time for guy to move on.
- June 29th, 2009, 07:14 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is online now
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You’re right.

I usually discuss a second date during the first one, and it is usually an activity which will consume most of a day (or more.) If we end up going with my activity, the common scenario is that I have gotten the major element (for instance, a ski trip), while she will have contributed to part of it (for instance, dinner.)

While many people here seem to prefer “coffee” or something else short, mine are always longer dinners. If she is disinterested in a second date, she’s disinterested in me, so there won’t be one anyway.

It’s somewhat common that she will suggest a second dinner date prior to the activity.

I do agree with your point that it is not appropriate to invite someone (which makes you a host, them a guest) and then expect them to pay.

In the event that a second date is not agreed during the first, and she did not contribute, and I really liked her (rare), a second invitation is at my house.

Really, though, it is not much of an issue. The kind of women I like in the first place stand on their own feet in the world.
- June 29th, 2009, 08:17 pm
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IcecreamMoon IcecreamMoon is offline
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I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm going to bring in a different perspective here.

How about you stop viewing yourself as an ATM first and start looking a little beyond monetary expenses per se? I realize that this is sensitive issue for most of you, and I understand it, so please let me explain my reasoning here.

Traditionalism does not change in a couple of years or even a couple of decades. It's much easier to implement new remuneration policies than it is to change societal attitides. I've heard all the laundry-folding, sock-mending arguments, and I can see the point, but they still don't wash with me.

Even though the majority of women you are dating are "new age", they grew up in families that were not. They were taught by their parents that it's the man's job to court and pay throughout the dating process. Now add a couple of brilliantly promoted self-help books, where every expert tells women to play "a little woman of the early 20th century" just to "catch" a guy. Do you get my drift yet?

Here is one solution -
Look for patterns of behavior beyond money. Does she reciprocate in other ways? in conversation? suggesting future dates? does she do little things for you just to please you? If the answer is yes, then money should not be a problem. You just need to have a conversation and gently lead her to understand that the relationship is putting financial strain on you. Say something like "I'd love for us to visit such-and-such" but money is a bit of an issue right now". I understand it may hurt your male pride a little, but we are trying to be fair and change patterns, right? And I can guarantee you that if the woman cares for you, she will volunteer to pay for this "such-and-such" date. And she should be more than willing to contribute to expenses in the future.

But if you don't see any of the signs of reciprocity described above, and if she finds ways of putting you down, or equating your worth with money, or discrediting you, even in a humorous way, then she probably is looking at you as an ATM machine, and my advice would be to run as fast as you can from her.

Hope this helps and good luck to all of you and your ATM machines!
Last edited by IcecreamMoon; June 29th, 2009 at 09:20 pm.
- June 29th, 2009, 09:18 pm
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IcecreamMoon IcecreamMoon is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
If we end up going with my activity, the common scenario is that I have gotten the major element (for instance, a ski trip), while she will have contributed to part of it (for instance, dinner.)

Can you suggest something for warmer climates?



D_Lion wrote :
Really, though, it is not much of an issue. The kind of women I like in the first place stand on their own feet in the world.
This I simply like to hear...
- June 29th, 2009, 09:23 pm
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cameracollector cameracollector is offline
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OK, I've just finished reading this entire thread.

bob, what I think I'm hearing is 1) you prefer a frugal lifestyle and 2) you'd like to see your date offer to contribute in some way. Is that right?

If so, I'd suggest that you not even permit your financial situation to be known in the early stages of a relationship. As other posters have said, leave the black card at home, don't post photos of you on your new BMW, don't take dates out to expensive restaurants early on or send other signals that broadcast your financial status.

No one likes to feel as if they're being "tested" or experimented upon. Leave the head games at home. Live in accordance with your values. You say you don't want to live a flashy lifestyle, so don't. That way, you won't be sending mixed messages to your dates, as in: here, I have money but I'm screening you to make sure it isn't something you want.

I believe when women dress provocatively and then tell men they can't have what they see, we have a not-so-nice name for it....

Maybe I've been living in the midwest too long(!) but my guess is that if you present yourself as a low-key guy with simple tastes, that's the kind of woman you're likely to attract. And they are probably the kind of women who will be sincere when they offer to split the check, and/or will offer to reciprocate some other way, like having you over for dinner or paying for the next date (or something that's within their personal financial means, not an empty gesture that they really expect you to pay for).

BTW, I really hope you aren't using an old, expired student ID to save a few bucks. Because that goes beyond frugal or even cheap - it's downright lying. If I saw a date doing that, it would be our last date for sure.

Best of luck to you.
- June 29th, 2009, 10:49 pm
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lil_lamb lil_lamb is offline
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wrote :
I can say unequivocally that everything else being equal, buying nice flowers and going to a nice place with lots of expensive drinks does a lot more for the mood than garden picked daisys and a hot dog.
i don't know why using coupons or the inexpensive causes you problems. my boyfriend uses coupons and it didn't get in the way of him becoming my boyfriend. really, he courted me with a single diet coke. of course, he hates both diet and coke, so his bringing me one was significant.

has it occurred to you that these fancy places put you in a better mood, and that's why you get a better response?
- June 29th, 2009, 11:14 pm
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