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6dle899 wrote :
"The worse you treat them, the more they come back for more of it."
Not the ones who know that they're deserving of something better.

May *every* woman get to that point someday.
- November 4th, 2009, 10:46 am
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SteveVance wrote :
Here is an excellent example of TOO NICE:

If I were to say, "Oh I am so sorry, here let me buy you a gallon of the finest hummus, you deserve it special girl"

/end example
That's not 'being too nice'....that's just a fact. LOL
- November 4th, 2009, 10:48 am
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SteveVance wrote :
Here is an excellent example of TOO NICE:

If I were to say, "Oh I am so sorry, here let me buy you a gallon of the finest hummus, you deserve it special girl"

/end example

In truth, you never know, some girls are actually into that stuff.
I will stand firm on this, I do not like hummus. Unless it's smeared on her, then I will compromise.

(i'm not too nice)
- November 4th, 2009, 11:28 am
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matt1982 wrote :
Thank you everybody for your replies.
I don't think I'm wishy-washy or the type of guy that doesn't have a opinion or can't stand up for himself. It's kind of hard to spend 9 years in the military and be that type of guy. I've got my own hobbies, passions and life, I'm not looking for a woman to give me one, I'm just looking for someone to share mine. The date ideas were all mine, and if they're not interested in me, just tell me your not interested. I'm not going to have my feeling's hurt because there are woman out there who don't like me, that's just life. I should probably listen to what I just said there and move on, right? I guess hearing "your too nice" and "your too old fashioned" after living down in Louisiana where that's completely unheard of just got to me, blew my mind a little
Well....the military does not train you for dating.

Anyway, it is also possible that you were a little nervous and essentially were a wee bit too rigid and too stiff (no pun intended) for lack of a better expression. Essentially hiding behind manners while being distant and aloof without even realizing you are doing it. Again, just food for thought.

If that's not it, then always keep in mind that when we tell another person that we are not interested, we don't speak in complete sentences. You are a really nice guy means - I think you are a nice guy and I wish I was attracted to you but I'm not and I don't want to hurt your feelings precisely because I think you are nice, so I'm just going to tell you that you are a nice guy and let's just be friends. Another way to look at it is under what circumstances do you tell a woman that she is really nice, but...... it's probably the same exact reasoning.
- November 4th, 2009, 11:35 am
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I love slices of toasted Pita bread or carrot sticks dipped in hummus, absolutely delicious and yummi!
- November 4th, 2009, 11:44 am
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6dle899 wrote :
Well, I am pretty good friends with one of the guys in the housekeeping crew that cleans the house every two weeks, and he is in his early 20s, as you appear to be, and he said

"The worse you treat them, the more they come back for more of it.

My friend left Natalie standing naked in the bedroom when he ran out of condoms.

And then, he went to play cards with his friends."

He was laughing about it.

LOLZ True story, and typical, there were lots more like that one.
Guy like that is what we Southern gals like to call "target practice."

Last edited by littlebluemonkeymind; November 4th, 2009 at 08:13 pm.
- November 4th, 2009, 04:14 pm
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Chances are the reason it didn't go any further isn't because you were too nice. Manners are always appreciated. If they're not, you're with a Philistine and should exit immediately.

Nor are all women fawning over alpha males. And, despite the popularity of "player" instructions and websites, most aren't looking for someone who'll play games by pretending to be less interested than they are.

But there are sometimes issues.

I have an acquaintance. Let's call him Luke. Luke thinks he's a good guy. He'll tell anyone who'll listen how nice he is. He's always helping and making himself available. In a relationship, he can't do enough for his partner.

Here's the problem. Luke does all that for himself. Without regard to how it makes his partner feel. Without regard to her boundaries (but I like her, so what's wrong with showing her I like her?). Without regard to her feedback that he's coming on a bit too strong, moving too quickly, or triggering a negative response in her. He's helpful even when she asks him not to be. Luke doesn't leave at that point, when he sees that they have different wants from a relationship, nor does he do the serious self-evaluation needed to see if he's capable of change. He stays. And keeps doing what he always does. When she leaves, Luke can't understand it. All he did was care about her and hold her in the highest regard. Even when she ends things, he hounds her to stay friends, and acts out some passive aggressive hostility when she declines the friendship. But what is he doing wrong? All he wants is to stay friends with someone he really cared about.

Do you see the problem here?

I don't know if this is what you're doing. I do know that there are a lot of self-proclaimed nice guys out there who really aren't that nice at all. If this dating thing is a pattern with you, you might look into that. Ask friends what their perceptions are of you in a relationship. And listen to the feedback without getting defensive.

Social intercourse requires us to have self-awareness and healthy boundaries in addition to being good. And it requires you to ask the question...good for whom?

Then again, they could just be idiots. I don't know. You're the only one who can answer that.

Wow, I read what you wrote and I honestly don't find really anything wrong with it.
Maybe its my Asian upbringing, but in Asia this sort of thing is a desireable aspect in males as most males are bred with an alpha male mentality with less regard to women.
He expects the woman to pander to his needs and desires with little as to what she really wants.
Hence most women who end up with mean, selfish men really just keep trying harder in the relationship thinking its her, that she can do better, not the other way around.
So something like this - being nice without regards to her boundaries - isn't usually a problem because it is considered as him taking lead/taking charge/taking initiative and because he is doing something good (being nice to her, being considerate, acting positively) he is generally considered a good man.
Minus the hounding after the end of the relationship.

In Asia generally a woman is brought up to be more passive. So for example, if she likes something she doesn't say she likes it. If she doesn't like something, she doesn't say she doesn't like it. She keeps it in and generally keeps in her desires and wants as they are secondary to those of her children, family and husband.

It may sound very horrible to an independent minded Western woman but in Asia this is really not considered bad at all. Many women would be very lost without such a rigid social structure where men are aggressive women are passive.
On the other hand it leaves alot to abuse because like many Asian families my Mom stayed in the marriages and 'tolerated' alot of things she shouldn't have had to, but felt duty bound to do so.

I myself have never really thought about it that way.
Thanks for the food for thought.

Some good reading for an idea of Asian culture would be to read Japanese classics and watch Japanese movies. Despite their 'modern' everyday life women still display very passive aspects which are desireable and typical of Asian women.
For other Asian women its generally the same but what differs would be she might be loud, aggressive acting or seemingly independent/modern but underneath she is bred to possess such passive qualities underneath, if not a result of breeding then a result of influence of Asian society and culture on her.
- November 4th, 2009, 09:01 pm
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scarlet13 wrote :
a better example would be if he said "I'll learn to like it, for you."

Ohh good one, I dont know which one could come off as more creepy!
- November 5th, 2009, 11:59 pm
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I disagree with the suggestion that game playing is not a good idea. My best success with women and relationships has always been when I was not trying, was not keen, did not phone often and was reluctant to share feelings etc. Then the girl chases me.

Be mean, it keeps em keen!
- November 6th, 2009, 12:12 am
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matt1982 wrote :
So I'm new to this posting thing... Hi Everybody! And I have a general question that probably doesn't need asking but I'm kind of fed up at the moment.

So the question is Are there any women out there that like the good guys? I was raised old fashioned and it was ground into my skull that you should always treat a woman with respect, I'm starting to wonder though if this is what women really want. I was told just yesterday that I was "too nice," all I did was open the doors for her and walked her to her car. This will be the 3rd first date in as many weeks, 1 "too old fashioned", 1 "too nice" and the other didn't reply to my call. Maybe the women and I see respectful as two different things?

Any comments?
Most women don't have a problem with courtesy. However, you also need to be aware of personal boundaries. Sometimes holding a door open for a woman or walking her to her car on a first date (especially if it's just a first meeting from a dating website) can feel like an invasion of personal space if that woman doesn't want that kind of proximity from you. This may be part of the problem.

Personally, I make a huge distinction between 'nice guy' and good man, and my views on the matter are pretty well-known around here. In my experience, 'nice guys' are people-pleasers and generally are being 'nice' not out of any meaningful courtesy or respect, but because of what they think it will earn them (kind of like LBMM's Luke). That is not 'nice'; it is selfish and disrespectful. If you want to read more opinions on the subjects, you can check out this thread http://advice.eharmony.com/boards/da...-not-nice.html

A good man, by my definition, is one who has a strong sense of self, knows who he is, has healthy boundaries, and lives with integrity and respect for himself and others. He doesn't need to be an alpha male as some people have insinuated. In fact, personally I would probably be inclined to go for someone who isn't - or at least who can show his sensitive side. But he has to be secure in who he is. Terms that would probably be applied to him would be 'solid' 'decent' 'upright' 'respectful'. But not 'nice.'

I don't know you so I have no idea what category you would be in. I will say that over the time I have been here, there have been countless examples of guys coming in and starting threads to the effect of 'why don't women like nice guys? Maybe I should just become a jerk.' Your post, while addressing a similar issue, didn't have that whininess to it, so I'm inclined to think you probably don't fall into the 'nice guy' category in most respects.

If being 'nice' is all you have, that on its own isn't enough. But if you are simply a decent guy who does things like opens doors for woman I would say the following:
1) be aware of the personal space issue.
2) keep in mind that in this day and age, so few people do those things that sometimes it can throw us a bit when someone does. Sometimes I'm not quite sure how to react because I'm so used to automatically doing things for myself. For example, I never mastered the technique of sitting down on a chair that someone is holding out for me at a table. So it just feels really awkward and never quite works out.
3) Sometimes doing those kinds of things can be interpreted as 'trying too hard'. This is especially the case if the guy appears very nervous.

I don't know any woman who has ever dumped a guy for being courteous. I do know women who have used the phrase 'you're too nice' because they don't want to tell a guy the real reason they don't want to date them. And I have known many women who have dumped guys because they felt the guy didn't respect their boundaries or because he seemed to be trying too hard.

Hope that helps.
- November 6th, 2009, 12:40 am
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